It is nothing short of an honor to have my next guest. A friend, a brother, one of my mentors in poetry, Nkululeko Page Ngwenya, boasts one of the most progressive career mobilities in our modern poetry era. This legacy he has built has been monumental though this has been his beginning. From Keen Artists, Current State of Poetry, Sundowners, and his involvement with Izinkondlo Ziyaphilisa, I needed to document his story for my children. Upon reaching out to him, he gladly agreed to speak to me about life in the pandemic, poetry, future plans, and how theatres have been affected.
We have been facing a rather tough time during this pandemic, and I just want to check in with you. How have you been? How have you been managing the new normal? Do you miss the old life? Have you got some time for introspection? Take me through your experience of lockdown thus far.
I’ve been well, I’d say as well as one can be during a Global Pandemic, but yeah, there’s been a lot of time for introspection on a personal and professional level. There’s been a need to look into how we are as professionals working on their craft but also how we are as people who are navigating a social life. I believe nothing has been under more scrutiny than everyone’s social life right now cause your social life is not just a social life now. It’s a health topic it’s a psychological topic as well, and that has needed to be looked into both by me personally, but I think just us as a society.
As a performer and a curator and event organizer for a respected institution that plays its part in the poetry industry, how has COVID-19 affected The Sundowners Brand (Where Poetry Meets Jazz at The Playhouse Theatre in Durban)?
COVID-19 has affected the Sundowners brand in a massive way in a way so massive that the show hasn’t been happening for a very long time. It has just come back right now, and I’m blessed to have that and can only hope to have it on for as long as we can have it on which we hope is quite a while, but that remains to be seen. I would imagine it’s tough for the performers as well like sundowners a lot of platforms closed down, especially as you have heard theatre is closing down, it’s terrible for people who organize things, for the people who run those spaces but for those whose entire lives, livelihoods and memories are there it must be devastating it is.
Are there any plans in the works for your work relationship with the Sundowners Brand? For example, going live stream/premier of The Sundowners Session that can be streamed from an online ticket purchase? What is the future in terms of how you plan to grow the platform for all artists involved?
Unfortunately, these questions can only be answered by the playhouse company itself because it is entirely their show. I am brought on board to assist and curate the poetry section to generally assist with the show. But the show does belong to the theatre in its entirety. It remains to be seen what will come of it in this time and how we need to adjust to this much, much tougher climate that is bought on by this pandemic.
You were part of the Keen Artists Theatre in Westville in a period that was considered to be the golden era of Poetry culture thus far. What are some of your favorites and career-defining moments during your years in that creative space/Institution?
Oh man, this will need 10 voice notes on its own haha, but yeah, keen artists theatre is very close and dear to my heart, and I believe it is very near and dear to the majority of people who went there because it’s one of those experiences that will shape you to a degree. You do you make real friends there, you do get to appreciate art at a level you have never thought of there, and that’s just always the energy it will exude. It is an invaluable thing to have gotten, and I don’t know about the golden era of poetry at the time, haha, but it was quite something to exist in that space and to have as much fun as we had.
My biggest memories there was when I was voted president of keen artist theatre. I believe it was 2014, 2014, or 2013 I don’t recall exactly, but when I was voted to be president of the movement, you know it was an amazing thing because uMxolisi Mtshali was president before that, uSqwayi Khumalo was president before that. People who have done great things with it were already presidents before that, so it meant quite a big deal and the many productions we put together. These productions were layered because there a lot of arts combined to form one product. We’d have a piece with dancers, singers, poets, rappers, everything there was beautiful.
Do you regret the circumstances that led to Keen Artists not documenting the memories, shows, workshops, and behind-the-scenes content that could have had its place in today’s content-driven era of product consumption? Or, if you had the resources, would you keep such content to yourself?
In fact, I will be not too scared to say that my academic life started in 2012 at DUT (Durban University of Technology), studying an engineering course in 2011. I had to switch to study a BSC (Bachelor of Social Science) in Westville because I like that course more, but honestly more so because that’s where Keen Artists theatre was. You just had to be there. If you get away from it, you just had to go in, so it was; oh man, it was something that was inexplicable. I wouldn’t know what to say maw’kuthi ngizama ukuyichaza (if I was trying to explain it) the thing we experienced there.
Ah man, it’s one of the biggest crimes really; of ukuthi people can hardly see what we got going on this side of the country. And even then, they can’t see what we had going on then. It’s something I personally feel because even nami, when I get told of what the poetry industry was before I got into it, I also was envious at the height of people like oSTP, oShine Shine, of uMoonchild, of uBusiswa when they were just, really riding the wave at the time and we can only take the word of the people who were there of ukuthi it was really happening.
What are some of the unexplored elements of poetry do you think poets are not investing themselves in with respect to making their art a full-time career? Do you feel that if regulatory parties around a poet’s brand such as PR, Management, Graphic Design, Publishing Staff, and Management all worked as one, would we consider poetry a viable career field?
The platform is responsible for producing a lot of artists who are very well known now. The likes of Busiswa Qulu, who come from that platform, and many others. A singer like Bongi Dube, a lot of people in the theatre space. A lot of singers, a lot of poets, a lot of comedians were either keen artist’s theatre members or they frequented the events of iKeen Artists and were, you know, one would call a friend of the movement. Talking oSimphiwe Shembe, Justice Sibheka, Toya Delazy all these people, so that was in the air you could feel it when you were there, so the tradition was strong.
I definitely think it would be a much more viable career field if all of those bits and pieces were part of the machine that made poetry work, that made each poet work, that made each poetry event or movement work. Cause that’s part of the problem as well is that poets are not administrators; they are not advertising people; they are not organizers. You are a writer and a performer; that’s what you are there for; you are a spoken word artist, so everything else you will do not as well as it should be done because it is simply not your calling.
But it’s really hard to answer the first part of your question of the missing element. I don’t know if I can have a good answer. I don’t know; maybe it’s because when you are in it, you don’t see it as a person who’s from the outside looking in, but I would say what poets are lacking is product. We don’t have much in a product in a way of things like merchandise in a way of things like publishing or recording and stuff like that. I was told once by a poet that I truly love Buddy Wakefield that the money is actually there. That’s where the money is in actually having something to your name that is sold out there, and that should be the case so we should have more money we should have things printed on t-shirts, we should have books, we should have albums that are sold in our own streaming platforms, and we should have videos that are submitted for festivals all of these things.
You have taken part in several Poetry slams. Would you say that these are the only mediums in which a performance poet can grow in terms of writing and performance? And what would we need to address the issue of accessibility in terms of poetry in the 4th industrial revolution?
I wouldn’t say poetry slam is the way for a performance poet to grow because you know there are; actually, this might sound a little controversial and maybe even hypocritical, but I guess it is what it is. A poetry slam is not the healthiest place for a spoken word poet to grow, because just this thing of competition, also to know of course that when you are competing, you know that there are people who are judging you, they are human beings who have their opinions on what is good who have their idea of a subject matter they wanna hear more of all of these things. Some of these things might have nothing to do with your pen game with your penmanship, so that’s why it’s not the healthiest place.
A healthier place to grow as for a performance poet is a poetry session. It’s just that simple. It’s a poetry session, especially one that where the performer is open to listening to people, critique them, or just have feedback or reviews of their work and their performance, so that is what I would think the healthiest way to grow because in a slam you will go there. You will perform, and you will get a 2, and it will not be it. It will not feel great, or you would say something, and you would think that it is good and it just is not that well-received, and that might shape how you write or perform afterwards whereas it was perfectly good, but it just wasn’t the right kind of judge to receive it.
Also, this is where I would encourage for there to be like private poetry sessions. Poetry sessions that belong to poetry houses. The reason being, at Keen artist theatre, there was this guy who came; he was very shy. He went to the auditions and didn’t wanna audition. Came and called one of us aside, said his story, that he would like to write, he would like to write something for someone to come and perform, doesn’t want this and all of that. But through iKeen Artists and us being with him and him just getting the vibe, he became one of our standout acts at every show from his performances. These poetry sessions could feel like rehearsals, is what I mean, and if the session is not private, it won’t feel like it.
There’s a conversation that has had a knock-on effect that I’m noticing, more and more poets are working on releasing bodies of work on Digital streaming platforms. Why do you think it has taken poets this long to create content to sell as products? Do you feel that this transition will be viable in years to come?
We are actually waay behind when it comes to the 4th industrial revolution and accessibility and poetry because everybody is behind. Unfortunately, in this country, many people are behind in whatever sector they are in when it comes to keeping up with the 4th industrial revolution as it is supposed to be. So we are at a higher disadvantage because we are a very overlooked department, a very overlooked wing of society, so we will not get the resources we need. We need cheaper internet, better technology, and gadgets so that we can more successfully put these kinds of shows on and do these kinds of things without.
Yeah, I definitely encourage it. I think this is how we are supposed to be doing it. I think we should be recording content to put everywhere where it is to be put, whether for it to be bought online or on streaming platforms. We should be doing this because if you want to normalize people enjoying poetry, we must make it normal. We must put it there, everywhere where normal people listen in. These are the biggest streaming platforms, these are radio, these are YouTube channel these are tv channels we must do our best to put it in there and not, like if we don’t think it our place ourselves then it won’t be our place in the rest of the world.
What is the future of Page and Poetry? Can we expect any bodies of work from you? Anthologies? Plays? Short films? What’s in the pipeline?
Ah man, I am hoping we can expect bodies of work from me, and I actually would not say what kind of work it is, but I definitely would like to do something and release something by the end of this year that is a product that is a product is packageable. It might be recorded stuff; it might be published stuff, it might be other media altogether, but its something that needs to be worked on and needs resources. I have done good in terms of identifying the right people for some things so that’s why I have slightly more hope this year, so fingers crossed.
What would you say to the future Page? What do you want to manifest? What defines the legacy you are building? What are the dreams of your generation and yourself?
What I would like to say to the future Page is, it’s happened, it’s done, poetry now is a viable career, poetry now is getting the response that it deserves from the general audience, and it is the duty of me going to the future. Many of us, including yourself including other poets to make it so, to make it so that other young poets coming up are not discouraged not only by the people in their lives but also by the way things are they don’t look at the situation and think “well clearly there no value in this writing thing” we ought to do better by them.
Poetry has been my heart for longer than I can remember. Even when I credit my technique to hip-hop, my writing’s most natural form has always been poetry. I feel at home, I find family, I find peace, love, and theatre in poetry, so when Page says I am included in the legion of poets responsible for ushering in an era where poetry becomes a viable creative career. Ours is to write, perform, plan, market, create products and media, instilling a culture where stanzas put us a cut above the rest. I am ready.
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Twitter: @ngwenyapage
Instagram: @pagengwenya
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Article by: Malibongwe Dladla
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